Miguel Octavio runs a blog he calls "The Devil's Excrement". Now I'd probably like this guy if I ever met him.
Politically though he's full of poop and still defends the coup.
He dared me to prove that General Rinky Dink Romero, (aka "This guy") was connected with the CIA. Here is the answer I tried to post on his blog. Sometimes I get these notices that my messages are forbidden, then they show up later. For safekeeping and because I did such a damned good job answering him I'm putting it here.
Eugene: Still waiting for you to provide the factual connection between the CIA and this guy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elxfUyFq3H8
Put up or shut up!
Miguel Octavio • 5/6/07; 7:48:13 AM #
Miguel sorry I missed your challenge. I figured the old thread was closed. Thanks for bringing it to me here.
http://venezuelafoia.info/cia1.html
http://venezuelafoia.info/ciaa4.html
http://venezuelafoia.info/ciab3.html
http://venezuelafoia.info/ciac3.html
http://venezuelafoia.info/ciad4.html
The above documents are CIA documents predate the Carmona disaster that they released under the Freedom Of Information Act. They are highly redacted by CIA but they show CIA awareness that a coup was coming, and that the coupsters were awaiting a pretext. I'd love to see the stuff that's cut out. Maybe my grandchildren will.
http://venezuelafoia.info/ciaspot.html
There was no coup say some oppositionists. Well the CIA calls the overthrow of Carmona a countercoup.
http://venezuelafoia.info/ciae3.html
There's more but you have your rules about lengthy posts.
April 17- Here they're (CIA)looking for the OAS to pull their chestnuts out of the fire.
Everyone who knew anything knew the CIA was knee deep in it.
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,688071,00.html
Venezuela coup linked to Bush team
Specialists in the 'dirty wars' of the Eighties encouraged the plotters who tried to topple President Chavez
Observer Worldview
Ed Vulliamy in New York
Sunday April 21, 2002
The Observer
The failed coup in Venezuela was closely tied to senior officials in the US government, The Observer has established. They have long histories in the 'dirty wars' of the 1980s, and links to death squads working in Central America at that time.
Washington's involvement in the turbulent events that briefly removed left-wing leader Hugo Chavez from power last weekend resurrects fears about US ambitions in the hemisphere...
Miguel-
Who said I have to prove that each and every coupster met with the CIA pre coup and took money from them? Did I ever say that each and every coupster met with the CIA and took money from them? General Rinky Dink Romero was a coupster. Did he personally meet with the CIA and take money from them? Perhaps his priest knows...
Heck, it's possible they never even met with you nor paid you a farthing.
Considering the bloody hisory of the Estadounidenses involved it would mean that the coupsters were ready to see lots of Venezuelan blood get spilled, that's the way these guys have operated before in Latin America. No reason to expect anything different in Venezuela. Not in 2002 and not in 2008.
http://www.counterpunch.org/blum0414.html
4 comments:
Cabbie, you're the one who's full of shit. You are not -and will never be- able to prove Lucas Rincón Romero was on the CIA payroll. If he was, how come he was appointed Minister AFTER april 2002?
You don't know shit about my country.
I think I shouldn't even answer anonymous people when they get so personal. What the hell.
I'll let Hugo Chavez answer this question since I don't represent him and don't necessarily agree with him either. http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=2842
8. WHY GENERAL RINCÓN WAS APPOINTED MINISTER OF DEFENCE
Interviewer- Can you explain to me why you appointed the general who announced your resignation to the country-General Rincón-as minister of defence? Nobody can understand that.
Chavez- Nobody?
I- Nobody. How is it possible that someone who said that you'd resigned when you had not can count on your trust?
Chavez- There are many versions, but I do know the truth. Maybe I'm the only one who knows it exactly. I know what drove him to say that. He is not guilty, but a victim of a situation in which I am involved; maybe this is why I'm the one who understands him, perhaps more than anybody else. I would feel badly if I had discharged Rincón.
1) HE CONSIDERS THE RESIGNATION WITH FOUR CONDITIONS
I- Why? Did you have an ambiguous position at some point?
C- I wouldn't say ambiguous, but there was a moment when we in fact started to discuss the topic of the possibility of the resignation. That was when I realized that we had lost almost all our military force on hand in order to resist or move to another place. So I called José Vicente and William Lara, the president of the assembly, who were there at the palace, and other people, other ministers, and I asked them to come to my office. We then studied the constitution and we began to think about the possibility of my resignation. I said to the group: "I'm able to resign, but only if four conditions are met. The first one was to respect the physical safety of all men, women, the people, and the government-physical safety and human rights. The second one: respect of the constitution, meaning, if I resigned it would have to be before the National Assembly and the vice-president would have to assume the presidency of the republic until new elections were called. The third condition was to address the country live. The fourth one was that all the officials of my government should accompany me along with those kids who were my bodyguards for years. I knew that they wouldn't accept, because that would be a shock group that I would have within my reach.
263 Then the emissaries-General Arturo Sucre, minister of infrastructure, and General Rosendo-went to Fort Tiuna. They talked to the conspirators and came back saying that, yes, they accepted the conditions.
2) CHÁVEZ LETS RINCÓN KNOW HIS DECISION TO RESIGN
I had authorized General Rincón, who had been with me the whole evening and night, to go to Fort Tiuna to find out what those people really wanted, and at that moment he was already there. In the middle of these events he called me and said: "President, they're demanding your resignation and they're putting pressure on me to resign as well. But I've said that I'll assume whatever decision you make." Then I told him: "Look, Lucas, Rosendo and Hurtado have arrived and they've told me that they accept the conditions that I am demanding for my resignation. Tell them that, yes, I will resign." I gave him the green light. He leaves saying what I told him. What he said was: "The president has accepted the resignation and so have I. My position is at the disposition of high command." Therefore, I'm completely sure that he said what I had told him by phone.
3) RINCÓN DISOWNS THE CHANGE OF THE SITUATION
What happened 10, 20 minutes later? He gives that declaration and leaves, but a few minutes later we receive the information that they no longer accept the conditions. I was almost certain that they were not going to accept; it was a way to gain time. Now they were demanding that I go there as a prisoner. I if decided not to do so, they would come to attack the palace. In a few minutes, the situation changed.
And that was the end-I accepted to leave as a prisoner.
Lucas left. He took his family to some place and on Saturday he returned to Fort Tiuna. He joined García Carneiro and the group of generals who were there reorganizing things. What can we accuse him of, then?
4) THIS INFORMATION WAS RELEASED
Has this information been released? Because as far as I know it hasn't reached outside Venezuela.
I explained that, I believe, to the special political commission of the National Assembly that investigated the events that took place during the April coup, when it interviewed me at the palace. I've said this before, when I appointed him as minister of defence to endorse him, to strengthen him. On the other hand, he's a man who has been with me from the beginning of the government. He was the chief of Casa Militar, he was a member of my ministry, he was commander of the Army and then inspector of the Armed Forces. And I appointed him minister of defence. Facing the new situation around us, which demands political dialogue, the most experienced man in my cabinet is José Vicente Rangel and this is why I appointed him vice-president from being minister of defence.
))))))))
Now the poopster says that "This guy" was essential to the coup.
For all I know Chavez made a deal with his captOrs and other opponents.In the days after the coup he was sounding very conciliatory. Could be he had to gather and assess his forces and make a new plan, and if so he did, and good for him. I wasn't there. The documents are highly redacted.
PS- I never said Romero was on the CIA payroll, or that he acted in a consciuous way with the CIA. You can not show me anything I ever posted that says that.
Personally I don't trust Generals as a rule and I would have cleaned house soon after the dust settled, but I'm not Hugo chavez, I'm a cabbie.
There are indications he did go to the Pentagon prior to the coup. Now I don't know what he talked about at the Pentagon or to whom but for me that would have been enough not to trust him.
Mr Wexel, had we been involved, Mr Chavez would not be around. Do you really think we do not know how to overthrow governments?
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